#Signal turning into a crypto-ponzi currency scheme?



That Signal:
- isn't really free/libre software (as Moxie denied freedom to redistribute modified version)
- would *never* federate (political choice of centralization)
- updated server software wasn't published
- invaded people's phonebooks
- runs on Amazon+NSA's infrastructure
- is virtually impossible to use out of Google's infrastructure -
- etc.

...didn't seem to be enough to alarm Signal users.

@jz Sadly for regular people, it's the only option beyond whatsapp

It's basically the only one with a clean UI and E2EE that is on google play afaik


I dont believe in the myth of "regular people":

- it's elitist and classist, and used by tech-elite to justify not doing efforts to teach; denying others' agency and ability to learn;

- it's wrong: i have witnessed 100s of journos and activists just LEARN "complicated" technology (tails+OTR+GPG, etc.);

- it justifies to take decision FOR the users, assuming that all face the same risk;

- it negates the political nature of tech choices, reading them only from comfort/easy angle.


@jz I guess it's a poor wording, I didn't intend to sound elitist, what I mean are people such as my parents who would be willing to use something more private, but don't want to have to learn any more technical knowledge

@SigmaOne there can only be poor wordings: "normal users", "noobs", "non-tech ppl", "my parents", "my wife", etc. it's *always* the same pitfalls i described, i think...

Your parents learned complicated things in their lives: to read, to write, maybe to drive and/or a technical job, etc.

Assuming tech things could "just work" without needing to learn anything is wrong, only favours domination.

Imagine someone saying "you dont need to learn how to read, just sign here". would you trust them?

@jz @SigmaOne

Still, UI/UX is really important. People will, most of the time, go the easy way.

@Fritange @jz @SigmaOne Delta.Chat is 100% free / libre software.
It comes with a user-friendly interface.
It ciphers every communications between two Delta Chat clients.
It relies on emails, a somewhat famous software federation.


@Siltaer @Fritange @SigmaOne

hmm. t is based on protocols (SMTP/IMAP) that were never thought for privacy/confidentiality, that inevitably leave traces of metadata on multiple points of the network, and can (as a default!) send unencrypted messages.

+ the question of account creation is left to the user, and in most cases it's rather hard to get free email address without leaving identifying traces, thus pushing the problem of identification under somebody else's carpet.

not my 1st choice :)

@jz @Fritange @SigmaOne Seeking free email addresses looks like a trap for me. The good relation with a service provider is to be the client, paying for the service. If it's free, you're the product, sold to real clients.

So I recommand to get a domain for less than 10€/year and to use the email address packaged with it.

At some point, freedom comes with a cost when other are involved.


Then, Delta.Chat don't produce "perfect" forward secrecy. Ok. So What else ? (I'm using it meantime).

@Siltaer @Fritange @SigmaOne

Exactly! So you pay for a reliable email service... and therefore are leaving 100% identifiable meta-data all over the Internet, while Delta-chat makes you wonderful promises of security/privacy/etc... I find it misleading at best.... :/


I think people can ONLY benefit from life-preserving or life-threatening technologies IF they take enough time to learn about them.

It doesnt mean becoming cryptographers. But at least learn what is a key, what it's useful for, how to verify and renew one. Otherwise you assume other people who offer to do it for you are good actors and.... History. :/

It's sad at first but once admitted empowering: solution is through collective teaching/learning read/write, w/o hierarchies! <3

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